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The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/18 21:47 A lot of people have complained that healing classes get the worst of the Honor system, simply because it is designed around damage output. Mages and Rogues consistently take top spots in Alterac Valley rankings, because they unleash the most devastation.

Now, I'm not saying that there are not exceptions. In the opening 2 hours of a full Alterac Valley tonight, I pulled ahead of a few Mages and a well-known Rogue (highest ranked on the Horde side) by several Honorable kills, and had a 15 kill-shot margin (55-40). It still comes down to skill.

That, however, is not the inherent problem.

The problem, as I see it, is thusly posed:

The vast majority of healers are not well equipped to fight. In the event that they are, more often than not, they are sacrificing valuable elements of their character's primary function, meaning they could lose chances at getting in on major guild raids, etc.

Blizzard's solution is to have us group up - obviously, if I pair up with a Mage, he'll be able to rip things apart even better!

Here's the downside:

There is a hard cap of 4 kills per player per day. That means I can only kill Xombies 4 times before he's no longer awarding me any Honor points.

This cap also extends to groups and raids. If your raid group kills Xombies 4 times, you can't receive any Honor from him for the remainder of the day.

The issue here is quite simple - as an individual, if I kill someone 4 times, I'm getting a very significant amount of Honor (depending on the situation, anywhere from 60-400 Honor). That Honor is halved when you're in a paired group, quartered if you're working with three other players, etc. There is a theoretical bonus for groups, but it is calculated the same way as experience bonuses - it is a small percentage.

Therefore, it is actually advantageous to that Mage NOT to take a healer under his wing!

With the exception of skilled PvP'ers and players totally uninterested in ever seeing the inside of an instance with a green portal, how are other healers supposed to compete?
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/19 00:19 LOL nice example on the hard cap there FoxX.

As far as how we're supposed to compete... well, that's a hard question. You can always join in raids on Horde towns and try to kill their generals for really nice honor points that way, but if you're referring to the battlegrounds specifically, then the only real options without Blizz changing the existing system are:

1) Find a mage/group who doesn't mind sharing their honor kills with you.
-or-
2) Go heavy shadow and take the attitude of the mage. Don't group and nuke everything in sight. This is not very Priest like and certainly does not help the healer oriented priest as FoxX was mentioning, but it is effective.

My *personal* suggestion is to have Blizzard take into account actual damage healed into the equation.

Example: We'll use a mage, rogue and priest group for this example.
- Mage deals 1000 damage to the target and takes 300 damage.
- Rogue deals 1200 damage to the target and takes 600 damage.
- Priest deals 0 damage to the target.

During the course of the fight, the Priest drops a heal on the mage and rogue that heals for 450 damage each. The priest would get credit for 450 points healed on the mage, but only 300 points on the rogue because he didn't need further healing. That's a total of 750 points.

Now when distributing the honor points per kill, the mage gets credit for 1000 points, the rogue 1200 and the priest 750. The honor points are then divided accordingly.

That still leaves us with the problem that the mage won't want to share their honor points. In this instance, my other suggestion is to have a seperate pool of honor points that can only be earned through points gained by healing. So the mage would get 1000 damage points and the rogue would get 1200 damage points on the target. They would share the honor from the kill. However, the Priest would get all of the "secondary" honor pool for healing because he was the only one healing the others during the fight. Make the secondary honor pool a bit smaller, say 75% of what you would normally get for the kill.

How's that?
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/19 03:13 I like the secondary honor pool option, but I think it needs to be clarified in that there would have to be a maximum amount of honor you could heal for per target (the same number of Honor points are distributed on a kill, irrespective of whether the target gets healed, and therefore takes more damage - it is distributed on a percentage basis). There would also have to be some kind of diminishing return system, so that healers couldn't surpass DPS'ers by virtue of unlimited healing.

But yeah... perhaps we could get a big suggestion together, and start swamping the Blizzard forums?
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/21 00:28 I agree FoxX. That's why I mentioned that the total number of honor points the healer would receive from the secondary pool would only be 75% of what you would get for dealing damage to and killing the target (assuming you get all the honor points for healing).

The amount healed wouldn't determine how many honor points you get, but rather what percentage of that secondary pool of honor points you would get.

Is this making sense?
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/23 03:17 It makes more sense than the current system, where we're physically unable to compete...

...so, yes.

I'm going to try and draft a major proposal to nail on the WoW forums, but I'll post some details here first so we can get something solid together.
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/25 00:21 Sounds good to me FoxX.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/25 13:10
Dear Blizzard:

This is being posted on behalf of all healers in World of Warcraft, courtesy of the http://www.wowhealers.com community.

The concern raised by this community today is simple: The Honor system does not encourage healers to play as such, nor does it encourage DPS classes to seek the assistance of healers.

To clarify, allow us to demonstrate:

There is a hard ceiling on the number of honorable kills you can get from any target in a 24 hour day - approximately four kills per target. This maximum is applicable to individuals and groups equally (meaning you can't kill someone three times by yourself, then go on to get four group kills, or vice versa). There is no bonus to your Honor for being in a group.

For a DPS class, the scenario is thus: They are going to get honor points for the first four kills on a target. In a group, this can significantly limit the amount of honor they can get in a day. If an individual Mage gets his 4 kills against each of 40 opponents in an Alterac Valley Battleground, vs. splitting that same honor with a two, five, 10, or 50-man team, he will get more honor.

What this promotes is a situation where it is advantageous to work alone. Some may argue that organizational strategy will force players into raids, but this is rarely the case in Alterac Valley, and only occasionally the case in Warsong Gulch.

From a healer's perspective, this is a nightmare. Yes, in theory, a Priest can load up Warlock gear, respec straight Shadow, and try to nuke, but what of Priests who have not chosen that route? What of the players in search of teamwork, who wish to contribute by keeping their comrades alive?

There is a place for this, but the system actually discourages it.

To that end, we propose the following amendment to the Honor System:

In addition to the honor points earned from killing opponents, there would be a secondary pool of honor points only available through healing. This pool would have a hard cap per healer per day, as opposed to the hard cap per target of the damage system. An amount would have to be distinguished by the Blizzard developers - say, 10,000 honor points - that would be awarded at a 20% rate based on damage mitigated.

What this means is that any time any character heals or shields a friendly target, 20% of the damage healed/absorbed will be awarded to the healer in honor points. Overhealing and unnecessary shielding would not yield points - only effective healing is taken into consideration.

What this does is it gives healers a way to gain honor and put back into group scenarios. Suddenly, it is hugely advantageous to that same Mage to pick up a Priest, Druid, Paladin, or Shaman, because - lo and behold - while they are dropping targets for honor, every heal they receive is also benefitting them.

In the event that DPS classes still choose to solo, this gives healers a way to be at least marginally competitive. A healer would need to heal 50,000 points of damage to get 10,000 honor points, hard capped at that amount per day. This prevents healers from getting a separate advantage, in that there is no accurate way to determine diminishing returns on healing honor like there is on targets (the first heal is worth 100%, etc.). It requires significant effort on the part of the healer, but given that a healer can drop a 3,000 hp heal on a friendly target, a higher percentage would make it far too easy for the healer to gain that amount of honor. As is, perhaps 10% is a more accurate reflection of time in vs. honor out.

Without a change like this, Blizzard, you are effectively removing the healing classes from the group dynamics of organized PvP.


That's what I'm thinking we should give them for starters... thoughts?
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/28 05:46 Foxx -

That is a VERY well worded post.

I havent posted about this on the thread yet, but I do agree with it makes beign a pure healer class discouraging in pvp.

Anyway, I love that post to blizzard. please link the forum you post it on here and I will support and bump it ok?

Paladeus
Paladeus - Skullcrusher PvP - Immortality (Alliance)
www.immortalityguild.com
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/07/28 08:59 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-general&ThreadID=4234244 The world will sing
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Re:The Honor System - How do we fit in? - 2005/08/05 03:03 gah i cant access the wow forums from work

ill have to bump that thing when i get home.
Paladeus - Skullcrusher PvP - Immortality (Alliance)
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