Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/02/07 22:19
My guild is starting to run more 15+ man raids. We have started on ZG. I was hopeing for some best healing practices about healing in 15+ man raids.
What type of heal works best (flash heal (lower rank flash heal), greater heal, renew)?
Healing strategies (stick to your group, heal all the groups, shielding frequencies)?
Are dark ruins and demon stones needed?
How best to heal in a 15 man raid with only 2 priest and no other healer types?
Is it best to conserve mana, pace the mana, or just heal away?
What are some pitfalls or don'ts about healing in 15+ man raids?
What is the casuality rate of a typical ZG raid, should you expect 1 or deaths per boss fight?
Additionally, I have a question about the healing meter. Some healers are just focused on being at the top of that meter. But I know from experience that sometimes there are "lies, dam lies, and statistics". What are some better ways of measuring or gauging healing.
I really enjoy reading many of the posts here, I am modivated to do the best job I can do.
Thanks for your inputs,
Bryjake
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Brodi
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Posts: 5 Karma: 1
Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/02/08 01:07
The exact heal spell I cast is very situational. Flash Heal is by far the most frequently cast spell in my arsenal.
Healing strats are again situational. When dealing with trash mobs, I tend to be quite a bit more liberal with who I heal. We like to keep the pace up, and taking time to rezz the fallen in between trash mob groups is viewed as an unwelcome lull in the action. For boss fights, we find that it works best if Priests stick with Flash Heals, while the Druids use their larger heal spells on the Tanks holding aggro. Druids innervate the Priests at ~30% mana. The rest of the raid is told to manage their aggro (Rogues Feint, Hunters Feign Death, etc.), and use bandages as needed. Many of the boss fights last several minutes, and you will not have the mana to distribute heals to the raid. Also remember that any unnecessary healing you do moves you higher up on the aggro list. Boss aggro + Fade cool down = Dead Priest.
I personally have never had any use of Dark Runes or Demon Stones. I will use a Sunfruit Juice, Sagefish, and maybe 1 major mana pot for boss fights. I also keep a stash of Greater Fire Protection pots on me at all times.
For two decently equipped Priests, keeping a 15 man UBRS raid should be no problem as long as they can focus on keeping the Tanks alive during boss fights. The rest of the raid would have to be aware of this and really work to manage their aggro.
We require raid members to have the latest version of the CTRA mod installed. There have been a number of posts praising the mana conserve feature of this mod. Enabling this will automatically address the mana management issue.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the casualty rate of raids. Many deaths occur from influences that are outside of our control – A hunter that follows an Aimed Shot crit with a Multi Shot crit and then a Auto Shot crit on a boss mob, just to have his Feign Death resisted is probably going to die no matter what you do. /shrug
Healing and damage meters are a very unnecessary distraction to the raid’s progress IMO. The healing meters do not track over-healing and therefore can EASILY display very misleading information. According to the damage/healing meter, all you need to do is set your mana conserve to 0 hp or 0% and spam PoH to be a good healer. Complete BS. These meters are strictly about penis envy (sorry for the crude reference ladies, but if you know how many guys are, you would see that this analogy fits well). Let the Hunters, Rogues, and Mages bicker over who’s the raid’s damage MVP. These meters account for countless meaningless deaths in raids from people trying to get that extra bit of DPS. I’m just glad that I don’t have to cover their repair bills.
Although I have never used it, I hear that there is an add-on that tracks over-healing. If you have a Priest in your group that likes to display the healing report at the end of raids, I suppose it would be funny to follow up with an over-healing report. It would be interesting to see how long these so-called healing reports would continue to be popular.
Best of luck to ya,
Brodi – 60 Priest - Uther
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conjoy
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/02/14 12:25
2 Priests should be able to heal anything up to UBRS quite easily.
One tactic that works is to have 1 priest concentrtate on PW:S and renew and the odd Flash. Priest 2 concentrates on throwing irregular heal or greater heal on heavily damaged members (generally the MT).
And you rotate the roles once Priest 1 gets to 50% mana (because those abilities are much less mana efficient, and require more regular casting [meaning less regenning time]).
For ZG, my raid runs with 2-3 Priests, + 1-3 Druids and 1-4 Palys.
It is totally dependant on the fight as to who is healing who, but your strategies will be defined by how many of each you ahve, adn what they are comfortable doing. Assuming 2 Priests 2 Druids.
Strats: Priests cover emergencies with PW:S and just keep renew stacked on MTs, covering flash heals on non-MTs. Druids cover MTs with stacked HoTs and the occassional Healing Touch. If you have a couple of Palys, they heal the MTs (because their heals generate the least agro) the Druids can become supplementry healers, kinda helping out with stacked HoTs on MTs and anyone else who needs.
Bare in mind with ZG, that almost every fight is challenging in its own way. Good strats, executed correctly are the key to winning.
For the 40mans, again, comms are v important. As is having enough healers. MC is prety easy one you gett eh hang of it, and ppl know their role. Healers are usually split up, and you usually cover a couple of groups.
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kae
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/02/15 01:13
OK, this is a bit long, but...it's my 3 cents.
What type of heal works best (flash heal (lower rank flash heal), greater heal, renew)?
For the 15+ man raids, I find i use Renew a TON, if only to do a quick fix on someone who isn't the main tank...i proabably cast it on eveyone at least once a boss fight. Also the ST quest trinket boosts your renew a lot, so when i have like 5-8 of them going i pop that and everyoen is gettign near 300 hp/3 sec.
Flash is only good when someone is taking a lot of dmg quicker then GHeal will kick in, mostly for caster and quick patching up of the tanks.
(i only have about +100 to healing in gear so lower rank spells to up mana conservation doens't work for me, tho i am getting nearly 100 mana/5 sec unbuffed, and i don't care what the nay saysers say, 2k mana/min when I'm doing my job is king, becasue face it, were priests and spamming heals is what we do)
Healing strategies (stick to your group, heal all the groups, shielding frequencies)?
OK, here's what I usually go for in a raid, I start of sticking to my group. If i see that the other healers are letting ppl die/get close to death, then i'll start doing small stuff to help(toss arround a few more renew) and if the small help isn't enough, i just start healign everyone, and at 56, when i started raiding, I was #1 healer on 75% of the raids i was on
Are dark ruins and demon stones needed?
Dark rune's and demon stones are neet, but Mana pots and or Rejuv pots (wildvine or Rejuvenation) are what you really need, bacause when you go OOM your not really useful for anythig beyond wand dmg while you wait for mana to come back.
How best to heal in a 15 man raid with only 2 priest and no other healer types?
Healing in a 15 man with no other healers...the short answer is, don't.
The longer one involves having the raid move slowly, making sure that your at Full after every fight and befor the next one, making sure that EVERYONE on the raid has and can use Heavy Runecloth bandaids/ healing potions/ healthstones, Food too.
Makign sure that the sheep/shackle/sleep/etc isn't broken, ever. And that everyoen is on the same target to kill this as quickly as possable.
Then you get into renewing ppl instead of flash healign them, and only using the big heals (flash/GHeal) on the main tank and ppl that are about to die.
It's not a fun raid unless you like flying by the seat of your pants( which i do...so..yeah)
Is it best to conserve mana, pace the mana, or just heal away?
Mana conservation should really only be done through CTRA, properly setup the Mana conservation feature is your best bet for not overhealing.
Note how much your healing for at minimum, then figure out how much your willing to over heal, put the difference into the amount that CTRA will force you to conserve and poof, instant mana conservation.
Pacing is a bit different, pacing requires that noone else need healing, so Main Tank must have and hold agro, then you need to renew him and watch his health, noting how long it takes him to need a GHeal If it's over the casting time use GHeal to heal him with renew to help guard against spike dmg, also if you bubble him (not a good idea, wastes mana) you're more likly to get through the fight without the mob going crit happy and turning the tank into tankpaste
What are some pitfalls or don'ts about healing in 15+ man raids?
PUG's are the biggest pitfall, not becasue they suck, but because you don't know anyone.
Also if someoen who isnt' the main tank keeps taking agro and forcing you to waste mana on them to keep em alive, tell them that if they don't stop getting agro your just going to let them die. It's harsh, but newbie mages/rogues/hunters need to know that your not there to be pushed arround and healign them so that they can pull it out and drop it on the table and measure it at the end of the night when they are #1 dps...You exist as a priest to make sure that the rest of the raid can do what they need to to defeat whatever encounter you come to, not to help some newbs big number fetish.
What is the casuality rate of a typical ZG raid, should you expect 1 or deaths per boss fight?
There is no average for ZG deaths, i've seen runs with noone dieing and others where half the raid wiped to every boss. It really depends on who your with and how comfortable they are with the zone.
Post edited by: kae, at: 2006/02/15 01:18
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Xelakis
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/02/21 19:29
Mostly agree with Kae.
In UBRS, I mainly use FH and renew. Usually, you have enough mana for all fights. I was yesterday the only priest in a 15 raid and the only healer too (though we had 2 druids and 2 pallies with us). Also, we only had 1 warrior. No wipe. I died once because we had multiple adds on the stairs before the Rend arena.
Usually, 15 or less raids are quite comfortable for priests.
In ZG bosses, it really depends on wether you take care of the main tank or not. If you do, you don't really have time for anything else. If you don't, usually, you have to take care of casters first because they die fast and when their lives go down it means they have oggro on them, and they cannot do anything (when rogues should not aggro and can take a step back and hunter can fd). Usually, you know when it can happen (like when the strat implies that they will ae adds) and be prepared (shield, renew then FH). It's usually not a good idea to use GH on casters.
On trash mobs, I use emergency shield on casters and hope that another healer will have something coming soon. I use group heal every now and then, when fights are tough but under control.
In Mc, if not on MT, usually it's mostly renew because you need to be available if anything happens, or group heal, because it more mana efficient when the whole group is hurt. Anyway, on most bosses you will have to heal a MT. In MC, people know that they will have only druids, pallies, pots, bandage, step back and luck to take care of their lives (except when casters need focus on).
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Atkins
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/03/22 06:25
HEALING METERS: These are useful both to assess how to assign healers based on healing burdens and favored spells and to check who is sleeping. Recap is a good mod configurable to show damage and healing stats. Of particular interest is that it reports actual healing unlike Damagemeters and a percentage of overhealing,m and it breaks down healing and damage done by spells. You find heavy POH users have higher overhealing, but, on the other hand, overhealing with POH is expected.
Overhealing in the teens is good, 20% is common, 30s and more often means tough fighting where there are multiple healers on the same targets and overheal is the price of avoiding deaths. Or it oculd mean a wasteful healer. Note that HOTs only tick when there is damage to be healed so generate no reported gross healing nor overhealing.
HEALING TACTICS: Assign healers their roles based on preferences, spec, and favored heals. Stack Rejuv and Renew on the tank - whomever has the most +Heal has the best HOT and is best able to use efficient lower rank spells for stacking and for small patch heals across the raid at very low mana cost. If you have a +Heal healer to spot heal, a Priests or Druid without so much +Heal is better to focus Flash, GH or HT on the tank, along with Shamans or Paladins who may be healing.
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KALPOTHYZ
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/03/26 17:23
HEALING METERS are all about dick size and are not worth looking at, the only thing that can help to maybe look at your stratagy in healing is the Overheal meter. However some of us priests will naturally over heal, as we are crit heal builds to get inspiration to hit as often as possible, brilliant for MT healing. However overhealing from crits isn't a waste of mana as you aren't spending more mana getting the over heal.
Kalpothyz
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Val
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/09/08 03:40
I agree that Healing Meters can be misleading sometimes, but I think there are uses for them. If some priests are completely slacking off in their healing duties, the healing meters are going to show it. As a rare breed of "Shadow Priest Who Likes to Heal" I work hard to justify my spec by outhealing most Holy priests I raid with, when I am assigned healing duties, and I'm glad the officers have a tool in place to see for themselves that I am pulling my weight in spite of my unconventional talent spec.
Our guild has decided to allow only the officers to run DamageMeters and similar reporting mods, while enforcing a "don' t ask, don't tell" policy for the general raid itself. I agree with this policy 100%, it's best that raiders focus on the situation and not how well they compare to their neighbors... but SOMEONE should be making note of people whose performance may be problematic, or those who are consistantly phenomenal for that matter. :D
I am not sure why people are saying that meters don't show Overhealing, because every one I've ever used has done so... along with how you are pulling your weight casting Dispel/Abolish Poison compared to the others.
** A NOTE ON OVERHEALING REPORTS AND SHADOW PRIESTS! ** Overhealing reports have one fatal flaw... Please remember to disclude your Shadow Priest's scores in this if he is using the Vampiric Embrace ability! Our raid has found it a very good strategy to put the raid's shadow priest with a group of all rogues, and they can leach health off his vamp embrace... The spell is such a low mana cost it might as well be free (45 mana, less if you have talents for reduced cost of instant cast spells). We will get that spell up on every mob we are shadowweave-debuffing for our warlocks. But of course if we are doing this even occasionally vamp embrace will cause our overhealing to seem off the charts because often it will be healing rogues that are at full health. The meters don't take this into account.
- Whitney
a.k.a.
Val Weaver , Argent Dawn Server
Shadow Priest and Stormwind Loyalist
Owner of The Finest Thread
"Artisan Tailoring, Custom Alterations, and Fashion
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bryjake
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Re:Healing in 15+ Man Raids: Best Practices - 2006/09/11 04:27
Val,
Thanks for your input. I agree that healing stats need to be look at from a perspective of who has what role. Typically the healers assigned to the main tanks top the charts, well duh because they should have the most opportunities to heal. If classes play thier rolls, there should always be a minimum of raid healing to be done.
The numbers can be fun to look at but what really matters is Team Success!
I am currently Disc / Holy build but agree that all priests can heal. A good shadow priest can be every bit as effective as healer. Just need to keep in mind what they do best. I believe the face melter should be have nuking as thier top priority (That is with Vamp Embrace) and then raid heal as a secondary function. That way you are taking advantage of what they are truely designed to do. I also believe that Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy should be main tank healing because their mana usage is far more efficient for healing. Basically, balence and role is the key. I good balenced raid group with a couple of shadow priests can really tear things up. I like what you said about grouping shadow priests with rogues. Makes good sence.
I really have to credit WoW for the 1.10 patch, it really made being a priest much more fun.
Bryjake
I try to learn something every time I goto Azeroth
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